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Ancient Egyptian Forum • View topic - The Pharaoh who reigned during the time of Moses

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Re: Proof
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:09 am 


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i don't understand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:12 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:26 pm 
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Re: myth
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 8:07 pm 
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Re: myth
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:48 am 
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 8:14 pm 
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oh really... i only read it in jews history.

basically... there is not much info about hyksos to be honest left, it still a mystery to me unless someone told me with new things (thank you sekhmet)... to me hyksos was defined as somekind of semitic-asiatic kind of people... in the way that they were probably, yes jews... perhaps, assyrians... or anything closer. I don't say they are equally jews (i don't see any similarity too, perhaps we agreed that hyksos is not jew).. but through Joseph, they believed to have somekind of good relationships between the ruler and people... so they were welcome in egypt... not like the other ruler.


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 9:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 9:12 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:52 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:53 am 
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 2:17 am 
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 7:05 am 
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To me Abraham might live in 5th/6th dynasty, Joseph probably at the time of Hyksos (16th/17th dynasty) and Moses in 19th dynasty.

Sekhmet this might interest you, though I'm not sure where they date the King... probably in 16th Dynasty.

======
A Trace Of The Name 'Jacob' Expressed In Hieroglyphs
In the Bible, Jacob(P) was the grandson of Abraham(P) and Sarah, the son of Isaac(P) and Rebecca, and the traditional ancestor of all Israel. He wrestled with an angel, who gave him the name Israel (Hebrew Yisra'el, Arabic Isra'il) (see Genesis 32:22-32). Jacob's(P) twelve sons were the ancestors of the twelve tribes of Israel; Jacob's(P) favourite being Joseph(P).

In the Holy Scriptures, there is no other Hebrew named Jacob with the exception of the eponymous ancestor of "Israel." The semitic name Yakub (Jacob) is mentioned -- as far as we know written for the first time in hieroglyphic characters -- in the list of the last Hyksos kings...

Since the end of the 19th century, specialists in Old Egyptian have been aware of the existence of the word "Israil" which appeared in a hieroglyphic text. Despite the fact that this quotation is unique, knowledge of it is widespread. On the contrary, the quotation of the name of Jacob in the same language is not so well-known: nevertheless, Jacob was similarly expressed in the titles of a Hyksos king of the 15th dynasty, who reigned during the 17th century B.C.

We must take into account that the Hyksos, who were respectful of the Egyptian religious customs, kept on using the names of local gods for their titles; in this way, the name of a sovereign expressed religious facts, exactly like it did for the traditional sovereigns of the country.

Thus, the king MERUSERRE



had a first titular name which means: "The one who loves the power of (god) Re." But it is the first element of the entire name, as for Ramesses II, where the first element was: "The (god) Re gave birth to him," preceding four other expressions, each of them having a religious sense. For King MERUSERRE, one knows only what follows the first element, two words: YAKUB HER, whose orthography is alphabetic and would not leave us in uncertainty about the translation: "Yakub (Jacob) is content (or satisfied)." One cannot know the reason for it, the more so since we are not aware of the last elements of the entire name: we may suppose that they would have been useful to a more complete understanding.

Some specialists in Old Egyptian seem not to have taken an approach that would have taken biblical history into account in their interpretation of the word "Yakub" as Jacob. From a purely linguistic point of view, they discuss the meaning of "Her," assuming that it might not have the classical meaning that is reported here: maybe it would have been transliterated from the Semitic word "EL" whose sense is "deity" and would become "Her" in hieroglyphs; through such an alteration "Yakub Her" would have a different meaning.

Nevertheless, we must draw special attention to what we know about this Hykos king of the 15th dynasty: he reigned circa 1650 B.C., as is accurately stated in a reference to the date of his quarrel with a kinglet of Thebes that is confirmed by texts. Also, it is most likely that we can situate a little before this precise time the entry of Jacob into Egypt, according to the general results of the present study. At the very least, the mention of the word "Yakub" in a titulary of a Hyksos king unique in hieroglyphs - means that the Hyksos aristocracy had just then introduced the name of Jacob as a kind of patron. Despite the absence of a rigorous demonstration from a linguistic point of view, we may suggest the possibility of an additional correspondence between the biblical teaching and the history of this time.

The Hyksos king is also listed in Nicolas Grimal's book, A History of Ancient Egypt.

The name YAKUB-HER is also translated as "Yakub (Jacob) is happy" in Mummies of the Pharaohs. Modern Medical Investigations. Interestingly, concerning the meaning of the name Israel, The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible concludes that:

the most probable interpretation is that which connects the name Israel with the root isr/'sr, "reliable," "successful," "happy."

In the title YAKUB-HER "Yakub (Jacob) is content (or satisfied or happy)", could it carry a connection to the name Israel?


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 7:23 pm 
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Canaanites
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 3:06 pm 
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Sekhmet wrote:
there is one aspect of the of the Conquest of Canaan by the Israelites that no one ever mentions that bothers me. That is what happens to the displaced Canaanites?
It's perfectly clear to the LDS--Mormons--Sekhmet. I'm originally from Utah, my family were all Mormon (I am not) and they believe that the 10 "Lost" Tribes took a boat and went to the Southern Americas, where they established the Mayan and Aztec civilizations.
And during Jesus' unknown years, he was bringing the word to South America!


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