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Ancient Egyptian Forum • View topic - Arguing with Hawass...

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 4:20 pm 
Pharaoh
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Ah, yes, Osiris II, thank you for pointing that out. However, I do wonder--was Amenhotep III still alive when Tut was born? I mean, in my own personal opinion, I would think that Amenhotep would be rather too old to have more children, regardless of how many wives he had. I think it plausible that Akhenaten was indeed Tutankhamun's father, and even if Kiya wasn't the mother--and I've heard she was a likely candidate--at least Akhenaten might have been well into his twenties when Tut was born.

To some, age would not matter in this issue, but it is relevent despite that. I truely believe that the so-called "Long co-regency" between Akhenaten and his father must have been cut short long before Tut was even born. I estimated that Akhenaten was in his late teens--maybe 19 or so--when he was crowned, and 26-27 when Tut was born. In addition, Amenhotep III was, sadly, a sickly man with absessed teeth and heavy weight. (If anyone can give me the EXACT cause of death, that'd be greatly appreciated!! ^_^).

So, to sum up my long, ranting paragraph, as much as I agree that no king was mentioned, I can assume that it was Akhenaten, not just because of the death of Amenhotep III long before, but because it WAS found in the former capital of Akhetaten, and found in the North palace--I believe, correct me if I'm wrong--and even if Amenhotep III was amazingly alive at the time, he would've been at Thebes with Tiye, probably dieing of a horrid disease from the absess in his teeth or from old age. And please, everyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and I'd like to thank Osiris II again for pointing that there was no name on the stele.

This is just my belief and my theory, and I hope it can be looked at with deep thought, reason, and no flaming. *Takes a bow* Behold!! My long ranting paragraph!! :lol: :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:08 pm 
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Amenhotep was between 2 and 12 years old when he took the throne, marrying Tiye (probably about his 16th year) and starting to have children, both with Tiye and his other wives and concubines, which included two of his own daughters later in his life.
I believe the co-regency lasted until the twelth year of his son's reign, who had moved with his family to Aketaten and that Tut was one of Amenhotep's III off-spring from a lesser wife or concubine. Tut seems to have grown up in the North Palace.
It is a well-known fact that men are able to produce children into their 70's, so the ability to have a child was more than possible.
Amenhotep's image, from a stele found at Akhetaten, shows an old, quite heavy, man. We know from his mummy he had severly abcessed teeth. In fact, I believe it was the poison from his teeth that finally killed him, I'm not sure of the cause of his death.
Later in his life, he seemed quite content to leave the ruling of the kingdom to Tiye and her son, A. She seems to have been a very controlling woman. She lived for several more years after her husband, and seems to have had an active role in politics.
The Armarna Age is, indeed, a battleground for mystery! No wonder it's been called the Amarna Tar Pits! About any theory one chooses can be applied to history of that time. Up to this point, very little is actually known, but with the high concentration of excavation in that area and others, we are gaining more knowledge every day.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:24 pm 
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Well said, Osiris II, and I tip my hat off to you for providing your own plausible theory. And it pains me to say it, but we really DO have alot to learn about the Amarna period, and it really IS no wonder that it was called "The Amarna tar pits!!" :lol: But I totally agree with you on one note: we need to research and excavate more on the area, and hopefully sooner or later, a piece of evidence will come up, and it will shed light on the whole mystery, and the debates turned quarrels would finally cease.

Until then, we only have bits and pieces of a large, complex puzzle, and that's what's so intruiging about Akhenaten's story--it came to a tragic, short end, and Tut--and I still believe that's his son, not to offend--was also predestined by the same fate, his reign sadly cut short by illness, as we are all now learning. But for Akhenaten's tale, it's still shrouded in mystery.

And I cannot imagine a man in his 70's to have children. :shock: But, I've heard stranger things!! ^_^; :lol: And I like hearing your version of the endless "Amarna tale", which, I pray, can soon be solved in our lifetime. I'm glad people can listen to my theories without getting angry or offended by it, and I mean not to offend anyone here!! ^_^ Because of the respectable people here who can provide thier own opinons, I also tip my hat off to you! :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:06 am 
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I also tip my hat off to you!
And a tip of the hat to you, too!

Seriously, though--don't feel you are in any way insulting or hurtful to anyone here. Everyone enjoys a good debate, and yours are extremely interesting and informative. A good debate is based on several things. First--a subject of great interest. Second--a person completely in favor of one point of view. Third--a person who sees the subject differently. These things add up to a most enjoyable airing of opinion.
I agree completely--morework has to be done in the Amarna field--not only in excavation work, but, hopefully, we will find an entact tomb there or in the Valley of the Kings that contains some sort of information that will shed illuminating light on the subject. The track record, up to this time, has answered a lot of questions for us, but there are a lot that need to be answered.
Who knows, maybe someday somewhere something--a tomb, an inscription, a papyrus--will be discovered that "Tells All"!


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:43 am 
Egyptian Architect
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:59 am 
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To reply to both:

Osiris II, my hat is off to you once again!! :lol: You're right, and I wish it really was THAT easy just to find a stele or papryus that tells us the entire Amarna tale. I actually wish that I could snap my fingers and all the answers would be in my hands!! lol. :wink:

To Claude II, first off, let me just say I LOVE your avatar!! It's Nefertiti, right? It's awesome. :wink: And for the story you shared with us, I tip my hat off to you as well, because you are absolutely right. If it weren't for the ancient peoples of Egypt who gave thier lives just so a wonderful and glorious empire could be studied and wondered about for future generations. It goes to every country, like the U.S, or Europe, who've strived to protect themselves for the future of the world. Thank you Claude II, for telling that story, and I still LOVE your Nefertiti (?) avatar!! :D :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 2:07 pm 
Egyptian Architect
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 2:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:30 pm 
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:shock: I hope that another battle won't break out... :cry: I mean, in this forum, many people go off-topic so much, that I don't even KNOW what's being discussed anymore. First, it was arguing with Hawass. Then it was the Rosetta stone. Then arguing with everyone here and offending people. Then Tut's family tree. Then Tut and Akhenaten. Then this. :? I'd be less surprised if we all debated over the color of Tut's eyes next. :cry: I just hate it when debates go horribly wrong...


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:47 pm 
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Tut had green eyes and thats final! (jokes, they were brown and THAT'S final!) LOL


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:53 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :D :wink: Thanks, Si-amun, you cheered me back up, lol!! (Though, I can't IMAGINE Tut with green eyes... :shock: ...actually....I just did... :lol: :wink: Though my sig begs to differ...purple eyes?! :shock: :lol: Ah, yeah, I'm so creatively stupid sometimes... :wink: :D ).


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:56 pm 
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Well, in short you are wrong because my conclusive proof shows that Tutankhamun had one orange eye and one pink eye, so there! haha, proved you all wrong!


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:20 pm 
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..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Heh...I rest my case! :wink: Let's pick the next random topic that pops into our head on the spurr of the moment!! :D :lol: :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:09 pm 
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I was reading through this thread and was surprised about how vitriolic some folks were getting over certain issues, particularly the Rosetta Stone and Zahi Hawass. The argument over the Rosetta Stone is really quite moot--the British Museum will never return it, right or wrong--but I'd like to add a couple of thoughts about Hawass.

In my position as a docent at the Field Museum I've met numerous people who have had personal dealings with Hawass and know him professionally. An Egyptologist related to me that Hawass's brash character and occasional arrogant and overbearing demeanor have made him unpopular among his colleagues, including those in his own country. He is not the quite the cheery, affable fellow we see all the time on the Discovery Channel.

I've never met Hawass so I shall reserve judgement. However, with the Tut exhibit coming to our institution next year (May 2006), I will more than likely have the opportunity to meet him. And you know what? I really hope I do get to meet him.

Say what you will about Zahi Hawass, he is a terrific spokeman for his country and has done much good for the antiquities and heritage of modern Egypt.

There, enough said by me for now. :wink:

Now, as for you two, Si-amun and tutness, you're both wrong about the color of Tut's eyes. My personal psychic told me he was an albino, so his eyes were white! So there! :twisted:


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Kmt, I'm glad you got here on two accounts:

First, for returning to the long-forgotten topic! :wink:

Secondly, for joining in the random yet fun-filled debate between Si-Amun and myself!! :lol: .....Tut? Albino?! :shock: Shocking!! :lol: :wink:

:? I can't believe Dr. Hawass isn't really an enthusiastic Egyptologist, after all. Then he's only playing the "Good doctor" to the public? Seems odd to me...if I were an Egyptologist--and I will soon be one, in Akhetaten, no doubt!!--I would only be focused on finding new and exciting evidence, and proving and providing theories, then to waste my time by "keeping up appearences". Hawass is an intelligent man, no doubt, and VERY well at what he does. He just...does it for the wrong reasons? :? I hope I'm wording this correctly, and as carefully as I can, and I mean not to offend anyone here who supports Hawass. :(


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