It's quite appropriate that the world's first homosexual couple were both manicurists....lol

Anyway, I'm going to study the negative confessions to see if there is any other way to translate the confession that outlaws homosexuality. Do note that these are merely the confessions of the heart, and there is no guarantee that the mere inclusion of that particular confession in the most common papyri outlaws homosexuality completely. Some confessions do not appear at all in certain papyri.

Surprizingly, in the translation I have of the Negative Confessions (see below)
http://www.galileolibrary.com/history/h ... page_8.htm
there is no mention of homosexuality. Have you read a translation that does mention it?
If mine is correct, it really surprizes me!

In case my link does't work (which happens quite often!) here is a reproduction of the translation.

After death the deceased enters the hall of the goddesses of Truth, and says:

'Homage to thee, O great god, thou Lord of Truth. I have come to thee, my Lord, and I have brought myself hither that I may see thy beauties. I know thee, I know thy name. I know the names of the Two-and-Forty gods who live with thee in this Hall of Maati, who keep ward over those who have done evil, who feed upon their blood on the day when the lives of men are reckoned up in the presence of Un-Nefer [i.e., Osiris]. In truth I have come to thee. I have brought Truth to thee. I have destroyed wickedness for thee. [This speech is followed by a list of the offences which he had not committed]:

1. I have not sinned against men.
2. I have not oppressed (or wronged) [my] kinsfolk.
3. I have not committed evil in the place of truth.
4. I have not known worthless men.
5. I have not committed acts of abomination.
6. I have not done daily works of supererogation.
7. I have not caused my name to appear for honours.
8. I have not domineered over slaves.
9. I have not thought scorn of the god (or, God).
10. I have not defrauded the poor man of his goods.
11. I have not done the things which the gods abominate.
12. I have not caused harm to be done to the slave by his master.
13. I have caused no man to suffer.
14. I have allowed no man to go hungry.
15. I have made no man weep.
16. I have slain no man.
17. I have not given the order for any man to be slain.
18. I have not caused pain to the multitude.
19. I have not filched the offerings in the temples.
20. I have not purloined the cakes of the gods.
21. I have not stolen the offerings of the spirits.
22. I have had no dealing with the paederast.
23. I have not defiled myself in the pure places of the god of my city.
24. I have not cheated in measuring of grain.
25. I have not filched land or added thereto.
26. I have not encroached upon the fields of others.
27. I have not added to the weight of the balance.
28. I have not cheated with the pointer of the scales.
29. I have not taken away the milk from the mouths of the babes.
30. I have not driven away the beasts from their pastures.
31. I have not netted the geese of the preserves of the gods.
32. I have not caught fish with bait of their bodies.
33. I have not obstructed water when it should run.
34. I have not cut a cutting in a canal of running water.
35. I have not extinguished a flame when it ought to burn.
36. I have not abrogated the days of offering the chosen offerings.
37. I have not turned off cattle from the property of the gods.
38. I have not repulsed the god in his manifestations. I am pure. I am pure. I am pure, I am pure.

In my original translation of the text (British Museum - Faulkener) it DID mention homosexuality but in a later text I bought with the hieroglyphic transcription (Budge) it DIDN'T mention it. At first I wondered if it was just a case of they were translating from different texts but if my memory serves me correctly (which it generally does! lol) then they were both translating from Ani. What you could be daling with is a translation of different texts, try comparing the King James Bible with the Catholic Bible, they have a totally new book in there called Apocrypha (I cannot spell!). It is the same for the Egyptians, except even worse!

Mind-boggling!
Here is a translation, attributed to Budge, that DOES include homosexuality--or at least mentions "laying" with a man.

Hail, Usekh-nemmt, who comest forth from Anu, I have not committed sin.
Hail, Hept-khet, who comest forth from Kher-aha, I have not committed robbery with violence.
Hail, Fenti, who comest forth from Khemenu, I have not stolen.
Hail, Am-khaibit, who comest forth from Qernet, I have not slain men and women.
Hail, Neha-her, who comest forth from Rasta, I have not stolen grain.
Hail, Ruruti, who comest forth from heaven, I have not purloined offerings.
Hail, Arfi-em-khet, who comest forth from Suat, I have not stolen the property of God.
Hail, Neba, who comest and goest, I have not uttered lies.
Hail, Set-qesu, who comest forth from Hensu, I have not carried away food.
Hail, Utu-nesert, who comest forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I have not uttered curses.
Hail, Qerrti, who comest forth from Amentet, I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.
Hail, Her-f-ha-f, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have made none to weep.
Hail, Basti, who comest forth from Bast, I have not eaten the heart.
Hail, Ta-retiu, who comest forth from the night, I have not attacked any man.
Hail, Unem-snef, who comest forth from the execution chamber, I am not a man of deceit.
Hail, Unem-besek, who comest forth from Mabit, I have not stolen cultivated land.
Hail, Neb-Maat, who comest forth from Maati, I have not been an eavesdropper.
Hail, Tenemiu, who comest forth from Bast, I have not slandered [no man].
Hail, Sertiu, who comest forth from Anu, I have not been angry without just cause.
Hail, Tutu, who comest forth from Ati, I have not debauched the wife of any man.
Hail, Uamenti, who comest forth from the Khebt chamber, I have not debauched the wife of [any] man.
Hail, Maa-antuf, who comest forth from Per-Menu, I have not polluted myself.
Hail, Her-uru, who comest forth from Nehatu, I have terrorized none.
Hail, Khemiu, who comest forth from Kaui, I have not transgressed [the law].
Hail, Shet-kheru, who comest forth from Urit, I have not been wroth.
Hail, Nekhenu, who comest forth from Heqat, I have not shut my ears to the words of truth.
Hail, Kenemti, who comest forth from Kenmet, I have not blasphemed.
Hail, An-hetep-f, who comest forth from Sau, I am not a man of violence.
Hail, Sera-kheru, who comest forth from Unaset, I have not been a stirrer up of strife.
Hail, Neb-heru, who comest forth from Netchfet, I have not acted with undue haste.
Hail, Sekhriu, who comest forth from Uten, I have not pried into matters.
Hail, Neb-abui, who comest forth from Sauti, I have not multiplied my words in speaking.
Hail, Nefer-Tem, who comest forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I have wronged none, I have done no evil.
Hail, Tem-Sepu, who comest forth from Tetu, I have not worked witchcraft against the king.
Hail, Ari-em-ab-f, who comest forth from Tebu, I have never stopped [the flow of] water.
Hail, Ahi, who comest forth from Nu, I have never raised my voice.
Hail, Uatch-rekhit, who comest forth from Sau, I have not cursed God.
Hail, Neheb-ka, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have not acted with arrogance.
Hail, Neheb-nefert, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have not stolen the bread of the gods.
Hail, Tcheser-tep, who comest forth from the shrine, I have not carried away the khenfu cakes from the Spirits of the dead.
Hail, An-af, who comest forth from Maati, I have not snatched away the bread of the child, nor treated with contempt the god of my city.
Hail, Hetch-abhu, who comest forth from Ta-she, I have not slain the cattle belonging to the god.

Source: From the Book of the Dead Translated by E.A. Wallis Budge 240 BCE

To get back to Si-amun's original post...I imagine that homosexuality was just as common in ancient times as in any other. Whether or not it is/was "acceptable" seems also to vary from time to time and country to country. I have always been of the opinion, however, that ancient peoples were a good deal more easygoing and unconcerned about the private lives of others than their modern counterparts. What is really funny is that several contemporary archaeologists...especially among the Egyptian Antiquities Dept staff...seem to be mortified at "the very idea" and go to great lengths to assure us that Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep were NOT lovers, but only BROTHERS. Why all the angst? Whatever the nature of their friendship, these two men chose, in a public way, to announce their desire to share in the afterlife the same bond they had shared in life. I find the idea both charming and comforting.

Cordially,

Niankhkhnum

Hang on! Just to throw this post back up again- Since first looking at this post originally I have noticed that there are literally hundreds of images of Male Gods embracing Pharaohs in simillar ways. Are you sure that this pose could not be suggestive of protection or something rather than love. I have found a particularly striking one of Ptah with some Pharaoh (I cannot remember which one at the moment) embracing each other in a far more....suggestive manner than that of the aforementioned relief. Any thoughts?

Hmmm, I am unsure still. Although it is a sign for affection I cant remember seeing any "mortals" shown in this pose without there being some form of relationship. The beleif in them being a same sex couple isn't solely taken from the wall carvings though, but also from the fact that the carvings of their wives have been erased in the tomb (it is thoguht during its preparation), the fact that neither of the men shows evidence of being buried with a wife even though at least one of them had one (a serious break from tradition if true) and the fact that then mens names seem to be very similar. t has been suggested that they are in fact brothers but if at least one of the brothers was married where is the evidence of the wife?
I do agree with you when you speak about it being a symbol for protection. It all seems rather strange. Now that you mention it there are loads of these images, but as I said before rarely (if ever) between two individuals not in a relationship. If this is true then we need to consider the role of it between "immortals". Does it still hold true for them or perhaps it is a different thing entirely?

Sorry, just had a thought so I nabbed my Bible off the shelf. Yes, before any of you say anything I do actually own one! lol. I found an interesting chapter in Leviticus, Chapter 18. It goes like this....

"You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live and you must not do as they do in the Land of Canaan where I am bringing you... Do not lie with anopther man as one lies with a woman, for that is detestable."

As you can see this implies that Egyptians practiced homosexuality quite commonly. The section of the Bible I missed out deals with the ideas of incest, who it is immoral to sleep with in the eyes of God. This struck me as incest was a large part of the Egyptian Royal family and depending on your belief system of when the Exodus happened quite prevailent in the Royal family. hmmmmm, it is quite interesting I feel. There is also a school of thought that lends itself to the idea that Pepi II, a quote from a book on influential Egyptians by Micahel Rice says...

(on Pepi II) "According to a story circulating during the Middle Kingdom he also pursued a homosexual with one of his generals, Sasenet. The King was said to have been observed creeping surreptitiously out of his palace at ngiht and climbing over the wall of the generals house, returning in the dawn."

Even if this Middle Kingdom story is untrue it at least acknowledges two things:

- Homosexuality was known about in Egypt, not shied away from or hushed up as things that would bring shame to the country (e.g. military defeats) were. Things like individual accouts of executions or trials are also quite rare from Egypt so the endurance of the document shows that people weren't ashamed to write about homosexuality.
- It was widespread enough that a King could be said to have been homosexual, or to have pursued homosexual interests without anything coming of the rumour. The fact that the text has survived four thousand years itself is a testament to the enduring nature of the rumour and the fact that somewhere it was written down and recorded.